I LOVE Froug.

The current poll asks you what the minimum number of dates is that you should go on with any given person. I know that as the girl who blogs about this stuff all the time, I should have voted at least more than one. And yet, when I went to vote (I always vote on the polls, I hope you do too!), I was drawn to the number one and that is what I voted.

I felt like such a rebel without a cause.

I think I just hate feeling pressured to do something, especially if I imagine certain situations where that pressure will feel very wrong.

Basically, there are definitely instances where you really don’t feel like seeing someone after one date and I’m really not sure you should feel like you’re doing something wrong if you decide not to go out again!

On the other hand, when people tell me that you really cannot know someone after one date, of course I must agree. Really, what can you know about someone after one date? You know how they acted with you on a first date. You know what they said. You know how they looked.

You don’t know how much of what you saw is actually how the person behaves and talks when he/she is not on a nerve-wracking first date. So maybe you should keep going out until you think you’ve gotten a better feel for a person.

Yes, no, may be so but sometimes that just doesn’t fly. And, should we not have some faith that you get a basic feel for the person on the first date?

I feel like I change my mind every Monday and Thursday but it’s not that I’m changing my mind. It’s that these topics are complex and it’s hard to have strict rules for these things. Or at least, you can have strict rules but if at some point you feel like your rules need to change, then they probably should.

Is one date not enough? Write your opinions here and make sure to vote in the poll!

Photo by fayes4art on flickr.

I agree.

You can still vote if you haven’t.

The next question is, is it a good or bad thing to be able to relate to Srugim? And, do we have control over it?

The results show that most people believe that guys should pay on the first date. How that is fair to these guys going on so many first dates is beyond me. If someone can explain this to me, I’d be much obliged!

Here are the results at the time of publishing of this post. You can still vote if you haven’t.

The couple should split the bill equally – go Dutch. 11% (9 votes)

He should pay the bill, she should pay the tip. 14% (11 votes)

What kind of a schlob wouldn’t pay for the date? Of course he should pay! 51% (40 votes)

She should pay the bill, dammit! And the tip! 0% (0 votes)

Each date is different. There are no rules. 16% (13 votes)

Other: 8% (6 votes)

so coffee means "I love you"?

So sad.  I have to admit defeat.

Out of 68 votes, 35 of you have voted that guys should pay on the first date.  Only a measly 6 of you agree with me that the first date should be declared Dutch (sorry to all Netherlanders who find this offensive…).

I can only conclude that:

• You prefer the awkwardness of not knowing how much the evening will cost you?
• You prefer not knowing if you have to pay for her meal, or for her coffee, or just for yourself?
• You prefer having someone say to you (or think at you) “after I spent all that money on you, you’re not going out with me again?”
• You prefer the indecision about what to order because you’re starving, he’s only ordering coffee and he’s paying? or not?
• You buy into the concept that a guy should be judged by his generosity with money on the first date?
• You buy into the highly sexist brainwashing we’ve all gone through that something in the guy spending money on the girl is truly romantic?
• You believe that dating is so traumatic that you’re going to make the guys pay, literally?  Because you should at least get a free coffee, sushi, burger meal, gourmet repast out of it?
• You (the guys) have lots of money and really don’t care one way or another?  (in which case you can take me and my soulmate out any time…)

Can romance grow without being connected to spending money?  Is everyone so happy with the way things are done now that they are unwilling to look into doing things differently?  Does the expression “well that works for me” come to your mind?  And do you ever wonder, if it works so well for you, why is it so traumatic or uncomfortable?

We’re closing this poll within the next few days – so if you just haven’t bothered to vote yet – VOTE DUTCH!

Photo by lepiaf.geo at flickr

It’s pretty sad that something that, in the good old days (because everything back “then” was just soooo good), was exciting, nerve-racking and intriguing, has become an annoyance for many. When you imagine the old fashioned first date, you imagine both sides being excited, the boy combing his hair in front of the mirror, putting on an extra spiffy bow-tie and his favourite slacks. The girl stands in front of her wardrobe way too long trying to decide which dress to wear, tries on more than one, puts on some bright pink or red lipstick and carefully removes her curlers.

He picks her up and they stand across from each other awkwardly. They both feeling excitement at the potential in the air.

What happens today when a 30-year-old is going on his/her 100th first date?

Look, the fact of the matter is that we’re talking about a whole other ball game. When someone goes on a first date at the age of 20, they are going on a different kind of date than someone 10 or 20 years older. First dates can become more and more difficult as the years go on. On the one hand you want to be open-minded, go out with the sincere interest in getting to know someone, but at the same time, you might prefer not to get too excited because your scientific statistic analysis has taught you that it “probably” won’t work out anyway (so far 100% of the time, that has been the case).

One of the things we’re doing here at HaBitza.com is working on changing the accepted norms when it comes to a first date. Yes, we must date like a mensch but we also must have accepted dating etiquette that makes sense! We’re living according to many first-date rules that are based on the old-fashioned first date! It’s like taking the rules for bike-riding and trying to apply them to driving a car. Some rules will fit but so many won’t and many will be missing.

So, for example, we still have the poll up asking who should pay on the first date. Around 50% of the people said the guy should. But wait. Stop for a second. Why in the world should the guy pay? Chivalry? To show he’s generous? What about the loss the guys incurs by paying for all those girls with whom there isn’t even a second date? What about the feelings a girl might have, taking all this money, over and over and over again?

Should the attitude not change by now?

One girl once told me she looks at first dates like interviews. She sets a time at a certain cafe she likes and speaks to them for an hour or so and then lets them go. I like the idea because it’s potentially efficient and not heartwrenching. On the other hand it makes me sad that we’ve gotten to the point where a date might lose the excitement of the Original Date (you like that?:)) but at the same time, maybe it’s lost it already anyhow. Or maybe, changing the rules to fit reality can help bring back more positive feelings around the first date.

Definitely I believe that the nature of the first date has changed. The question is, how do we finally accept that and create a framework where the rules match the experience.

We’re currently running a poll on HaBitza (to the right of this post) asking who should pay on the first date and right now, around 50% of the people are saying that of course the guy should pay.

WHY?!?!?!

Because one day when you give birth and can’t work for a few months you need to know that he’ll be able to support you? Because you need to know he’s generous? But doesn’t he also need to know that you’re generous? And doesn’t generosity have to do with way more things than just money? What if he doesn’t pay but he’s very attentive? What if he doesn’t pay but he makes sure you’re comfortable?

For years I’ve had people tell me about the importance of the guy paying. It never sat right with me but I always listened and always told people I believed the guy should pay. I figured that even though I don’t exactly get it, it’s the “ultimate truth” and so it must be followed blindly.

Sheesh.

Anyway, I think that the only reason a guy should pay on the first date is because it’s accepted. So once it’s accepted, it’s like there’s something weird or off if the guy doesn’t offer to pay. But if only it weren’t accepted, I think it would make a lot more sense.

Why? Because I always feel uncomfortable on the date when it comes time to pay. If I knew I was just going to pay for my own, I could order what I want without worrying about having someone who is practically a stranger paying for me. Also, the guys wouldn’t have to have a special dating fund or, at least, both guys and girls would need one but the guys’ fund could be smaller. Why should guys get the full expense of dating for years and years?

I’m sure there are other very good reasons for the first date to be dutch. During a time when people didn’t go on more than a few first dates in their lives, maybe it made sense. But have things not changed enough that this “rule” should change too?

Photo by Monochrome on flickr.

Are you currently a paid/active member of a dating website (including matchmaker sites like Saw You at Sinai)?

34 people answered.

11 (32%) said: Yes – I’m a paid/active member on one site.

7 (21%) said: Yes – I’m a paid/active member on two sites or more.

9 (26%) said: No – I’m not into that. 26%

5 (15%) said: No – I am currently taking a break from dating sites.

2 (6%) said: Other: 6%

There was one comment by P. Almonius: “Tried SYAS, didn’t like it. It felt like someone sat down and said ‘we like how traditional matchmakers are impersonal and inflexible, but how can we make it more alienating?’”

So, out of the 32 who didn’t say “other,” 18 are currently active online on at least one website and 14 are not active (either temporarily or at all).

Nine people said they’re just not into it… I wonder why. Is it people who never tried it or tried it and were turned off? I sometimes walk down the street and see very nice looking guys and I think to myself, “I’ve never seen those guys online!”

A couple years ago I read an article in the Canadian Jewish News where a single girl gave a shout out to the single population asking people to join dating websites. I totally hear her! Even though it’s becoming way more accepted, and even though we all keep hearing about people who met through a dating website, for a lot of people there still seems to be a certain stigma. I think that if online dating websites are used wisely, they can be a great tool in the dating journey. I also think all of you who have your lives together and stay away from these sites – stop it now!

Of course, part of wise usage is knowing how to make a decent online profile. I wrote a piece giving tips on that.

We’re now going to put up a new poll but here is the old one and you can still vote if you haven’t yet.

Comment retracted: This was not my first, though I thought at the time it was.

But anyhow, as I always try to be honest, I will have to admit that the dinner I attended a couple nights ago was really quite nice. It’s really all about the people and they sat me at a table with people who I really enjoyed. And I was grateful that the organizers didn’t have any ideas of making us play games, nor did they have us change seats in the middle in order to maximize the number of people we’d meet throughout the evening.

One could argue that more games and more musical chairs would have made the dinner more “effective.” My vote isn’t in about that yet. But it definitely was way more comfortable being at the event as it was.

Hilariously, I was sitting and talking to a few people during the dessert/mingling part and a guy (one of the people attending) came up to us, stood up on his virtual soap box and told us that in order to make this evening worth while, we should not suffice with just having casual conversation with people of the opposite sex but, instead, be sure to follow-up with people of interest, afterwards. I loved that this stranger was so proactive, going around the room sharing his idea with everyone there.

I see how my opinions and feelings change over time. A few weeks ago I expressed an aversion to marrieds organizing singles events. Since then I have been thinking more and more how important it is that people try to help each other. I wrote about the importance of friends setting up friends and honestly, anyone who wants to help, kol hakavod to them.

Since I started having that attitude, I admit that still, my first reaction when seeing the planners of the event was, “What do you know, Mr. and Mrs. Married?” and, “Do you think you’re better than us and we’re a bunch of nebachs who need your help?” But in the end, the stronger feelings I had were those of gratitude and respect for these people who were trying to make a difference in something that didn’t affect them directly. This is to be admired, in my opinion. Especially since, if it’s only singles planning singles events, then the moment they find their besherts, they drop off the scene and leave a void until a different single person picks up the reins and goes with it. If, on the other hand, someone is organizing events no matter their personal status, there will most probably be more staying power.

We had a poll up on HaBitza.com a couple weeks ago where we asked you if you like/hate singles events. It seemed that a large percentage of those who answered, hate them. But after attending this past event, the way it was set up, it was nothing more than a very nice social event. I met some new people, talked to old ones and enjoyed some very interesting conversation.

Maybe single events don’t have to be so torturous or, an even bigger maybe: Maybe singles events really aren’t so bad but people are embarrassed to admit they like them. As someone said to me the other day, “No one is going to say, ‘Oh, I love singles events! Why I just went to three this week!’”

Of course there is the possibility that this singles event was especially nice – particularly because they didn’t do anything singles-y… for better and for worse. Because one piece of feedback I got about the event afterwards was that not much tachles came out of it. I know that’s true for myself. There wasn’t anyone there that seemed particularly interested in me or was proactive about being in touch afterwards. So maybe this event was too comfortable. Not that I’d necessarily be willing to go to an event that was more in your face about it being a singles event.

But still I ask, what is the deal with singles events? Are they really as bad as many singles make them out to be? Is it possible that any proactivity connected to finding your beshert – whether it’s going to a matchmaker or signing up to a dating website – has a certain taboo attached to it and so it’s much easier to talk against them while really they aren’t that bad and they can be helpful in our searched for the right person to marry?

And most importantly: Will I ever go to another singles event again?

(Today I wrote a post about the pervasive taboo.)