HaBitza

Question:

Why are we so obsessed with dating? What are we, in an Archie comic, where if you don’t have a date for the big dance or even just Saturday night then you’re a loser. (And look how messed up he is, eternally torn between Betty and Veronica except when he’s trying to get a date from Midge, who’s his friend Moose’s girlfriend. How twisted is that?) We should be obsessed with creating a relationship. If the only thing on our minds is dating, then we become stuck in a never ending cycle of dating for dating’s sake.

Tony Jassen, Jerusalem

Tanu Rabanan:

I love and don’t love this question. Both feelings stem from personal reasons which I’ll explain.

Lately I find I am so sick of talking, contemplating (and writing) about dating. I have realized that it’s bringing me down. Focusing too much on something can be so destructive. OK fine, make an effort to meet your beshert, but when I find that it’s such a major topic of conversation amongst singles, I know something is wrong. (Yes, I know that parents could sit around talking about their children for hours but also there I think there is a problem if people cannot engage in conversation about anything besides that central theme in their lives.)

I have my own secret plan about how to combat this in my own life. Yes, it’s a secret so I cannot tell you right now but suffice it to say that I know I need to make a change. I am too focused on trying to meet the right one and not focused enough on trying to live life to the fullest – including filling my potential - right here, right now.

So I like the question because it mentions this obsession. But, at the same time, I cannot fully relate to Tony’s question. Maybe I just don’t do what he’s talking about but basically he’s suggesting that people spend too much time thinking about dating and not enough time thinking about building a relationship. I feel like everything I write here on habitza.com (and probably everything Vera writes too) is focused on the idea of dating being part of a bigger picture and, maybe most importantly, that we need to “date like mensches” now, today, because everything is about building healthy relationships in the end and you cannot expect to somehow surf through the dating experience, act however it is you act, and then one day, when Mr. or Mrs. Right come along, be able to switch into a healthy relationship mode.

So, I cannot relate to the separation Tony sees and I wonder who can relate to what Tony is saying. Do you see people focusing so much on the trees that they’re forgetting about the forest? (Totally wrong metaphor)

By yours truly at Bunsen Lake, Beautiful B.C.

Question:

Vera and Deena,

My singlehood comes in between my relationship with my parents. Any time the topic of dating comes up in conversation (I avoid it but it happens now and again), I start getting extremely defensive. I’m wondering if this is just par for the course or if there is something I could do in order to not feel so stressed any time I need to talk to my parents about dating or being single. Since the topic cannot be totally avoided, if there was some way it could be less stressful, that would be nice.

Thanks,

John Doe, Rosh Hanikra

Tanu Rabanan:

If you didn’t feel defensive talking about dating with your parents – I’d think there’s something strange.  First of all – they’re married, usually have been for a while, so what do they know about the situation.  Secondly, they have your interests at heart, they love you so much, and it’s just sooo much pressure.  Thirdly, you care about them, you want them to be happy – even more pressure…

It’s often easier to talk to total strangers who really don’t care about you, than to talk to those who just want you to be happy.  So is it par for the course?  I think most of our readers would say yes.  What you can do about it depends a lot on your relationship with your parents.  Sometimes the relationship is such that you can sit your parents down and tell them that you’d like to be able to talk to them about this, and clarify what you need from them so you won’t be so stressed by it.  If you can do this, it says a lot about your parents, about you, and about the relationship.

But sometimes you need to think and decide for yourself who to talk to about what, and just avoid any discussion of dating and being single with your parents.  If you can find something else you’d really like to talk to them about on a regular basis that could also help – stony silences with family are also not pleasant, and tend to give a sense of “the elephant in the room”.  (For more information about elephants in rooms, see my blog on the subject..)

This second option is one of the hardest things to do.  Sometimes it’s necessary, in my opinion, to sift the subjects we discuss and the people we discuss them with.  When you’re overflowing with creative ideas – don’t talk to critical friends.  When you’re feeling low about yourself – don’t talk to people who put you down, even if they seem to be so nice.  When you’re worried about health, don’t talk to hypochondriacs who’ll make you feel worse.  And sometimes, sadly, when you’re anxious, worried, unsure, nervous about dating – your parents are not the best people to talk to about it.  Unless you’ve managed to read them the riot act, that is…

Vera, Habitza

I have heard from many people that it is a challenge to figure out how to talk (or not to talk) to their parents about anything relating to dating. It is really fascinating how we can be such mature people and then this one thing can make us feel like immature little kids.

First, I think it’s important for you to try not to be down on yourself about this. It seriously is so normal and it seriously is a very sensitive issue.

Second, as far as what can you do, it’s such a tough call. I like Vera’s idea of finding other things to talk about so that there is something to hold your relationship together.

But there still is the issue of how to deal with it when the topic of dating comes up. Sadly, sometimes it can feel like a lose-lose situation. Whether you say that you don’t want to talk about it or if you decide to open up a little, give some details, neither will necessarily sit right with you.

I’m very interested to hear from other readers who might share with us what they do to keep a positive relationship with their parents despite the dating topic which can get in the way and how they broach the topic with the folks.

Deena, The Swampety-Swamp

Question:

I’m going out with this guy who said something really strange.  He said he thinks he wants to marry me, but he’s not sure he’ll be able to be faithful as he doesn’t find me so attractive.  We’ve been seeing each other on-and-off for around a year.  Should I just totally dump him?  He can also be really nice, interesting, sincere, but he said he told me this because he felt he should be honest.

Jane Doe, Jerusalem

Tanu Rabanan:

Thank you for writing to us. Sounds like an interesting dude. He’s “nice,” so you say, but he’s not sure he feels like being faithful…?

Um, nice?

There are basically two reasons you should end contact with him ASAP. First, the obvious – he doesn’t view faithfulness in the highest regard. Second, he told you he doesn’t find you very attractive. I don’t think anyone should ever tell anyone that. The fact he did so shows a huge insensitivity and if this is how he is on his best behavior (aka dating behavior), then how’s he going to be once you’re married to him and he becomes more relaxed?

You need to focus on finding someone who really appreciates who you are. He doesn’t have to love everything about you but should at the very least be attracted to you and do his best not to say or do things that will hurt you.

Behatzlacha raba!

Deena, The Swamp

Question: How many guys can one date at a time before it gets rude? This is in the early just dating phase, before commitment, exclusivity, or anything of that sort.  I like examining all options, and I don’t like to block options off before researching them thoroughly, which is why I might take on several options at a time, but at what point am I going to piss people off?

Deena: This is a question I feel I need to answer by just saying how I personally deal with it since I think it’s very subjective and I’m not necessarily convinced that my way (which you’ll see is very “strict”) is necessarily the right way for everybody.

Basically I do whatever I can not to get involved with more than one guy at a time. And by “involved,” I mean even in a very minor way. There are two reasons for this. First, I find for my own emotional health and for my sanity I cannot focus on more than one guy at a time. It just doesn’t work for me. It stresses me out. I need to just focus on the guy at hand and get to know him without comparing him to anyone else and without having to try to remember who said what, who I laughed with about what, who I went where with, etc..

My other reason for sticking to one at a time is that I cannot help but have a cheating feeling if I involve myself with more than one guy at a time. A relationship is built on honesty and openness and if you are doing something that you need to keep as a secret from a person with whom you are possibly starting to build a relationship, it just doesn’t make sense to me to do it! I am not saying you need to feel open with someone immediately but you should not feel like you’re keeping something from them specifically because it is a secret from them.

I cannot say, though, that I think it’s morally wrong to be involved with more than one guy at a time when we’re just talking about the first couple (or maybe few) dates. I know that people do that, I have no idea how they deal with it, but if it works for some people (I mean really works), then maybe it’s not a bad idea. I would just say you have to be really careful (and for that you need to be really honest with yourself) not to hurt yourself or the guy(s). Dating can be hard enough as it is.

Vera: It seems that your question isn’t so much how you will feel dating several guys at the same time, but that others will be angry with you for doing so.  Perhaps the answer is to be completely up front about it.  “Multi-dating” is going on anyway amongst singles, when people feel that since at the beginning there is no “relationship” so why should there be a problem.  I think the secretiveness around it is more of a problem, the feeling that you have to skulk around if you’re meeting a second guy, worried that you’ll be seen by the first etc.   More food for thought than a definitive answer!

Good luck!

Dear Yenta/Chick,

I have a terrible problem.  I’m a 35 year old single guy.  No-one will go out with me.  No-one will set me up.  They say I’m not serious.  They say I must be dumb.  When I ask why they won’t answer me.  Finally a girl told me the other day that it’s because I’m blond, blue-eyed, tall, lean (I work out), well-dressed (I enjoy wearing nice clothes – is there something wrong with that?), and girls just don’t go for that kind of thing these days.  I’m religious, I go to a regular shiur, study every day, and always try to work on myself, but no-one believes me.  My friend says it’s because I don’t wear glasses, don’t stoop, and when I grow a beard it doesn’t look scraggly enough.  It’s gotten to the point where I’m wondering whether to dye my hair, put on a creased suit and a black hat with crumbs in it, and gain a few pounds.  What should I do?

GL, Arizona

Yenta says:

No, no, you should stay exactly as you are… and sweetheart – why don’t you send me your phone number?  To my private e-mail,.. yes, it’s for Chick…

Yenta and The Chick,

I recently became part of the Bitza. It’s a great place to be and very fun but I am finding that I’m totally confused by it when it comes to dating. I might meet a girl at a Shabbat meal and I find her interesting in one way or another. But then, I might meet another cute girl at Seuda Shlishit. Why should I focus only on the first girl when I already see things about her that could be annoying to me? Meanwhile, there are around a million other single girls who I could check out. How am I supposed to choose which girl to focus on? (Of course, not to mention that she is not necessarily going to choose to focus on me.)

DYT

Half a moon anyone?

The Chick says:

I hear you. As someone who is new to the Bitza as well, being surrounded by an array of singles of all shapes and sizes (figuratively speaking as well), it can be distracting. You could have your eye on one lovely girl and then meet someone else that pushes Ms. A out of your head.

Bad, evil Shabbat meals. No. Kidding.

I wonder if this problem is caused by lack of focus on a goal. Do you have a conscious idea of what you are looking for in a spouse? This is anyway important. I’d recommend consciously thinking about what it is you’re looking for. Once you make yourself conscious of it, you might find that some of the characteristics on your list are not really important.

Ask yourself, what are the most important traits in a spouse and focus on that list. Stay conscious of it, whatever happens! I once heard about a woman who would date a guy as long as he had those characteristics that were at the top of her list. I hear she’s happily married today. I think that keeping your eye on the goal will keep you focused on a girl, as long as she seems like she might have what it takes to be your better half.

Yenta says:

Really, should be Yenta yells – HEY!  YOU!  WITH THE SPACE BETWEEN YOUR EARS WHERE THE BRAIN SHOULD BE! (did I promise to be nice?  did I ever say I’d be nice?  no…)  I would really not like to be with you when you go to a buffet dinner, it must be messy… you’re the one trying to hold fifteen plates and a dinner roll between your teeth, I’m guessing?  The one who has to get all your courses at the same time so G-d forbid nothing should run out?

Forget a million single girls.  Be a mensch.  A mensch talks to the person sitting in front of him.  You’re bored?  You don’t have to punish yourself.  If you’re in a crowd, give yourself ten minutes.  Five minutes. But whatever time you give, make it quality, be there, be respectful, look her in the eyes, don’t shift in your seat while you’re trying to turn around to look at the girl behind you (yes, I saw you…Yenta gets around you know).  Make sure you ask her at least two real questions about herself (no, not how much money do you make…).

Didn’t your mother/grandmother/butler/nanny teach you?  Only take food on your plate if you’re going to eat it all.  And remember, that plates balancing thing?  Really not attractive… especially the breadroll…

Photo by joka2000 at flickr.

Dear Yenta/Chick,

I’m writing because I’m so confused, something happened and I don’t understand why!  I was on a great mountain hike with this guy, we were having a great time, and then he asked me really urgently “are you shomeret negiya”?  Well, I didn’t know what he was talking about!  He starts yelling “do you hold negiya”?  He’s getting really uptight, and I go “Um, well, no, I don’t hold…” – dear Yenta/Chick, I’m lying in hospital with two broken legs and concussion – what happened?  What’s a negiya?  Where can you buy them?  How do you hold them?  And the biggest thing that I’m confused about - why did this guy let go when I was falling off a cliff?

from FRX, California

Yenta says:

Oh dear, this is going to be hard.  Really hard.  Sweetheart, the first thing you need to know is that guys fall into two main groups – he’s either a mensch or he’s not.  It’s that simple.  He probably didn’t even come to visit, am I right?  No flowers, no calls?  Not even one lousy Advil?  Not a mensch.  Also dumb.  You don’t know what a mensch is?  You need to change your life, get a better therapist…get out more…

Negiya means touching (boys and girls, you know what I mean  You don’t need me to spell out what touching means.  Now calm down).  Holding negiya means not touching.  Not holding negiya means touching.  Does it have to make sense?  For millenia nice Jewish guys have been asking nice Jewish girls “do you hold…”  Nice Jewish cavemen would ask politely (in grunts, not much has changed..) before bashing the ladies over the head with a club and dragging them into the cave… So when you started saying “I don’t hold..” your boychick’s (sorry Chick, no offense meant) brain went into wherever dumb guys brains go into… he wasn’t sure if you were not holding, or not holding negiya…he wasn’t sure where you were holding…

My advice would be – forget the guy.  When you’re feeling better, take yourself  into Bloomingdales and get yourself a nice colourful negiya (they’re on special this month) and hold it instead… it’s probably got more common sense…

The Chick says:

Well, at least you found out he’s a bum before you married him! It’s great to have opportunities to see if the person you’re on a date with is a mensch. But next time, lets try to make the test a little less lethal. Feel better!

Hey Yenta, how do you know about Bloomingdales?! : )

Photo by Augapfel at flickr

Dear Yenta and Chick,

I met this really great guy, and he invited me for a Shabbat meal – that means he’s really interested, right?  He even asked me to help, so it’s like we’re doing this together! I’m making chicken soup, beef goulash, and chocolate mousse for dessert – I’m so excited!!!  So he’s interested, right?  He said I should make enough for 6 – isn’t that great?

TLPQ, Jerusalem

Yenta replies:

Well, the way I see it, there’s good news and bad news here… The bad news is I’m going to have to be very mean.  The good news is that it might be funny.  The more bad news is that it might not.

If you can’t take the noise, close your ears (and eyes) before the next phrase – WAKE UP SWEETHEART!  SMELL THE LACK OF COFFEE!  Has he brought you his laundry yet?  He has?  Uh-oh.  You did it?  Please don’t tell me you did it?  Did he ask you to make sure you separate the whites from the colours?  Did he offer to pay for all the things that you’re making?  Half?  Quarter?  Fraction?

The appropriate place for food in a courtship.

Oy, I need my pills.  You are so sweet and trusting it’s hard to do this to you.  Giving me heartburn.  I’d better go make cholent for all the lonely people…THIS GUY IS A USER!  There should be a computer game to warn girls about guys like this,  you know, the kind where you have to avoid the users in order to get to the prize.  And if the prize is marriage,  darling, you are so headed in the wrong direction.  You could find yourself cooking, cleaning, ironing, and cutting up his food small but he’ll never ask you out on a date.  There I’ve said it.  now give me two valium please.  Yes, of course with scotch.

The Chick replies:

Sigh… Where are the tachles-minded youngsters of yesteryear? And, have I suddenly been possessed by Yenta?

Yenta replies back:

Surely every chick should learn to connect with her inner Yenta…

Note from habitza.com: Of course, not that we chas veshalom would be chogeg a goyeshe yontef such as Valentines Day. (Those who understand this note are the ones who are supposed to.)

Photo by emilywjones at flickr.

This one is for Yenta (Chick, I need tough love this time).

Question: I don’t know what to do. A couple of weeks ago I met a guy in a group setting and we really seemed to be connecting. He seemed really sweet. And he seemed to be showing interest back, talking to me quite a bit, etc. etc. Then I got in touch with him online, through facebook and figured I’d chat with him and see where it goes.

I did and it was so disappointing. He seemed totally not there, not interested. In person he’d been so interested, asking questions, listening to me, and now, in the chat, he was practically ignoring things I’d say.

What in the world is going on? I was considering asking him out but now I feel very disappointed and like I just want to forget about it. Sucks since he came across as pretty wonderful when I met him.

Oh, Yenta, what happened? And why does my excitement have to get shot down so quickly? What do you think I should do?

Thanks.

Yenta: There’s something I have to break to many of you out there, including you, gentle questioner, who are about to be shaken up to wherever one gets shaken up to.  Heed carefully the perspective of the ancients.

FACEBOOK IS NOT REAL.

Yeah, yeah, and the emperor has no clothes.

FACEBOOK IS NOT REAL.  I said it again.  Just like phonecalls are not real.  In order to get married, two people need to meet in person, go through a wedding ceremony together (not via text, facebook, linkedin, shminkedin), and preferably go through the rest of their lives living in the same house.  Probably the same room.  Possibly with some real children (not some Japanese toys which cry if you don’t press the “feed” button on a regular basis).

So think about it: are you going to assess reality from the face-to-face connection, or from the emperor’s new clothes?  And get this – not everyone facebooks…

The worst thing for hopes is to feed them with virtual realities.  (The Chick answered too so, click to read on!) Read more…

Yenta and Chick,

I don’t know what to do. Sometimes I get into a really sucky mood and sometimes it turns out I’m moody before I need to call my date for the first time. I’m always worried my mood will come across on the phone and then the girl will think I’m down all the time. I’m also worried I won’t  be as nice as I want to be because of my mood.

Any ideas how I can deal with this?

MB

Yenta says:  I’m feeling decidedly Chick-like in my response to you, MB, moods are the pits.  And for a girl, talking to someone who sounds like Quasimodo on a bad day isn’t encouraging.  (don’t know who Quasimodo was?  look it up!).  You’re absolutely right, you do need to shift the mood before you make the call otherwise it will come across (unless she’s moody too, which might upset the Bezeq operator who’s listening in).  The way I see it you have several options:

1.  Eat chocolate before the call

2.  Avoid chocolate before the call (how should I know how your body chemistry works!)

3.  Find something that makes you laugh – a sitcom, book, article.  Half an hour before the call, make sure you’re watching/reading/doing something that’s upbeat.

4.  Talk to someone who makes you laugh.  Then make the call.

5.  Put on some funky music and dance around the house 10 minutes before making the call.  (you could leave your blinds open, might help your neighbours get out of their moods too)

6.  Keep the call very, very short.  With the Dating Rules you can do that.

Bear in mind, procrastinating on the call will absolutely not help your mood.