HaBitza

I wonder, do you think you’re a good listener? Maybe you do. But especially if you’re a guy, chances are very high that there is room for improvement in your listening skills  (speaking from all my date experience). My main complaint after almost every single first date is that I didn’t feel like the guy really listened to me (aka, it felt like he wasn’t totally paying attention, he talked about himself way too much and he didn’t ask enough questions).

Look, it’s also my fault in a way because I’m a damn good listener and I think it blows people away. I mean, it’s exciting to have someone really listen to you and show interest, right? Especially since people are so easily distracted since the start of the cell phone era.

Of course all of this is extremely unfortunate because, alas, I do need someone who will actually listen to me.

Sigh…

But now my hope has been restored! Yay!

Please… for me and for the good of humanity, I think you should take this very telling listening test. Imagine finally knowing the truth about your listening skills!

You’ll need to find someone you associate with closely and ask them to answer the following 10 questions. (Honestly.)

The ultimate (or whatever) listening test

1. During the past two weeks, can you recall an incident where you thought I was not listening to you?
2. When you are talking to me, do you feel relaxed at least 90 percent of the time?
3. When you are talking to me, do I maintain eye contact with you most of the time?
4. Do I get defensive when you tell me things with which I disagree?
5. When talking to me, do I often ask questions to clarify what you are saying?
6. In a conversation, do I sometimes overreact to information?
7. Do I ever jump in and finish what you are saying?
8. Do I often change my opinion after talking something over with you?
9. When you are trying to communicate something to me, do I often do too much of the talking?
10. When you are talking to me, do I often play with a pen, pencil, my keys, or something else on my desk?

Sorry I’m not giving credit to anyone for this. A few sites published it so it’s hard to tell which is the source.

And now what?

Well, if you’re a great listener, then good on you and here is my phone number. :)

If you aren’t… Well, I’d just like to take this opportunity to warn you that it’ll take a really concerted effort to improve because, as a pretty damn good listener myself, I can tell you that really listening to someone so that they feel listened to, takes quite a lot of effort. Among other things, you’ll need to think about yourself less, feel comfortable just letting someone else talk, use some serious power of concentration and be patient.

But I believe in you.

And really the bottom line is that it’s all worth it because the benefits of being a good listener are that you get to make other people feel good and you’ll get the opportunity to really get to know some awesome people (who will remain nameless) who otherwise wouldn’t have been able to communicate with you beyond a first date.

Image by Brett Jordan on flickr.

Over the last year and a half of this blog’s life, there has been quite a bit of discussion on HaBitza around the question: Who should pay on the first date?

Happy to pay?

Following this discussion, for quite a while, I believed that the first date should be Dutch (each person pays for themselves). For me, the main reason is that it makes me really uncomfortable having a guy pay for me. A guy who I barely know and I may not even go out with again. It didn’t seem fair to the guy.

But I recently experienced something on a first date that made me realize that I hadn’t fully understood what it was that bothered me when guys pay.

Basically, I was on a date with this guy who, when it came time to pay, he looked at me and said, “Please, let me pay.”

Suddenly I noticed that I was happy to let him pay. It actually felt nice!

And then I realized that I didn’t necessarily have an issue with the guy paying. My issue was more about feeling like he really wanted to be doing that for me. And so often I just can’t tell.

When this guy actually said something, it gave me a feeling that he wanted to be doing it. And then I was happy to let him do that for me.

So there you go. All this time I thought people should go Dutch when really all I want is that if someone is going to do something nice for me, he/she should do it happily and not grudgingly. Otherwise, it’s possible I’d rather they don’t do it for me at all.

Vera wrote a humorous post about how the guy paying on date #1 shows he’s generous (or broke).

I guess that what I see is that how he does it is half the favour. And that is what begins to tell you who the person is sitting before you.

P.S. Another post is warranted for this topic: That nothing I write is written in stone. It is written in pixels on a screen. Zehu. This post is proof of that.

Photo by stevendepolo on flickr.

I feel like writing a post every time I hear about someone who is treated so wonderfully by their date… Until the person isn’t interested in them anymore. I find it disgusting.

Did I mention? Disgusting. Yes, it is hard to reject someone in a respectable way but to treat them with less respect just because you aren’t interested anymore…

Disgusting.

Barf.

I feel like I keep talking about the way different people break up… Sorry about that.

Most of you know what I’m about to say: I just think you learn so much about someone by the way in which they break up with you. Or by the way they deal with being broken up with.

I have often laughed with my best friend that when you break up with someone or they break up with you, if they deal with it really nicely, wish you all the best and act friendly towards you, it almost makes you more interested in them than before. We’ve joked about wanting to take back a break up after we saw how nicely the guy took it. :)

I just read a blog post on tapuz about altruism being sexy. The writer, Rachel Langford, quoted a study by Dr. Tim Phillips that showed that women – and men, it turns out – are attracted to giving people.

I guess that explains my attraction to the kind breaker-upper (and the turn-off reaction to the unkind breaker-upper). When I see someone who is able to give of themselves, still be kind, even when they know they aren’t going to get anything from you anymore, it’s so attractive. Especially since I know from experience how damn hard it is to be up front, honest, sincere and kind at that point when really you feel like running away and hiding.

So I guess the point is that there is something in it for you, to act altruistically. Of course if you’re altruistic for selfish reasons, well, that doesn’t really work. But, מתוך לא לשמע, בא לשמע? :)

As we always say: Better to be kind for selfish reasons than not to be kind at all. And to think you’re going to look sexy doing it too!

Photo by nettaphoto on flickr.

How often are people only nice because they feel like they’re getting something in return?

I’ve spoken about having a pre-date agreement in the past and I keep thinking about how much I really wish I had that. I really don’t want to get involved with someone who can’t relate to the idea of being considerate of the other person until the bitter end. I wish I could know ahead of time. :( It’s tempting to look up people’s dating past, find out how things ended with other women…

I know it sounds stalky but this is a deal breaker for me so if I could figure it out in advance, I could save myself a lot of pain.

I wonder what questions one could ask to get an idea how the person treats even those they aren’t too fond of.

In my head, the first words of this song were, “You don’t know me.” OK fine, so it’s “You don’t own me” which means it has nothing to do with the topic of this post. No matter.

The beginning of this week (which, thank God, feels very far away now) I was reminded yet again how much I might think I know someone but then I get to find out who they really are when they aren’t interested in me anymore.

It’s a scary thing to experience. If I date someone more than once or twice, it is because I have a pretty strong impression that they are mensches. And when I find out they aren’t, it really throws me off.

So, my belief goes like this:

You really learn who the person is when they are no longer interested in you and/or when they break up with you.

I guess the easiest way to research this is to find someone they broke up with and ask that person how he/she was when they stopped being interested… On the other hand maybe it’s important to get first-hand experience.

One thing is for sure: When someone is a bitch when they break up with you, it definitely helps you get over any feelings you may have been developing for them!

And meanwhile, back to the drawing board.

ugh

If you can't commit to these points, you most probably will have to stop dating.

Damn. I’m such a bad liar. OK fine, I wish that “rabbis” had decided that they will now push the pre-date agreement. Here is my dream article, as if this were true:

Finally, leaders of the Jewish community have decided they must take a stand against all the lack of derech eretz happening within the dating world. They have begun drafting a pre-date agreement which is inspired by the pre-nup agreement being signed by couples before they get married. This new and innovative document helps people be more clear of how things will run during and if necessary, when ending, their mutual dating experience.

One rabbi, who currently requested to remain anonymous, contacted HaBitza.com. He explained that the committee would like to make sure that all the most important points will appear on the document. He thought that HaBitza might be the perfect platform where this discussion could take place.

I have decided to start the discussion by supplying a few points I feel are important to agree upon before beginning to date someone. In the comments below please let us know what else you think should be in the “pre-date.”

1. Both sides agree to be appreciative and show it, too. This means, for example, that they will thank each other when one does something for the other and both will thank each other at the end of the date for giving of their time and energies.
2. Both sides agree to do their best to express what they want to say in clear sentences, not expecting the other side to read their minds.
3. The man must be in touch with the woman within two days of the date, unless he was extremely seriously wounded while saving a baby in some majorly heroic act. (And, by the way, in the case of the heroism, the girl must fall for the guy whether or not she enjoyed his company on the dates.) This applies whether there is interest in another date or not. If the man really does not have it in him to reject gracefully on the phone, he is allowed, and encouraged, to send a text message so that it is clear to the woman that there will not be another date.
4. If there is a misunderstanding, both sides may seek advice from third parties but then the misunderstandings will be spoken about between the two daters. There will be an attempt made on both sides that even if the relationship does not continue, hard feelings are worked through earlier rather than later so that both sides can move on feeling OK about what happened.
5. If one person needs it, he/she agrees to go to therapy so they don’t, often unknowingly, take out their whole past on their fellow dater. Also, when necessary, the persons needing mesch classes agree to go until the mensch expert believes that from now on the person will be able to hold themselves back from hurting their dates knowingly and unknowingly.

Honestly, I do wish I could agree on certain things with a guy before I even went on a date with him. I am inspired to change the world and make this happen. Maybe matchmakers could discuss these things with people and then only set them up if they are fairly confident the person could uphold their side of the deal. And then, if they ever don’t, and don’t have a good excuse for it (or don’t have a sincere want to work on themselves), the matchmaker would stop setting them up.

What do you think? Make sure to share in the comments what you think should be in this new pre-date agreement!

Photo by lrargerich on flickr.

I keep hearing about women who go out with a guy and never hear from them again. One woman told me that from her perspective, that is the closure. Obviously if she doesn’t hear from him, he wasn’t interested, right?

Grand.

Someone else told me she tries to convince herself that although she feels very uncomfortable with the lack of closure, that, like the first woman, she’ll see the lack of phone call as closure.

The list goes on and on. I have another friend who went on an awesome date and then never heard from the guy again.

Another time, a friend was asked out, they were supposed to meet that evening but then they bumped into each other that afternoon. I guess after spending some more time with her, he decided he wasn’t interested and so just never called. This was after they even had plans!

Honestly, the list goes on.

And someone just pointed out to me that all the stories she knows of this kind are chutz la’aretz men. Men from outside of Israel. And she (she’s married with kids but feels for all these women) pushed me to give this shout out:

Guys, I don’t know where you come from. I don’t know what is going on in your heads. But adapt, gentlemen. I mean, be gentlemen! The lack of closure is extremely difficult (even when it’s supposedly obvious that the lack of a phone call means you aren’t interested).

Of course the more dates you’ve gone on, the more you owe her a call.

A special notice to the ladies:

Don’t let guys get away from this! When I need closure, if I don’t hear from the guy, unless I really prefer never to talk to him again, I will get in touch with him one way or another. Why would this ever change if guys get away with it? Yes, I tell him I think it was wrong that he didn’t call. And then, hopefully, I am given the closure I need (if he answers or calls back, of course).

P.S. Guys, if you can’t find it anywhere in your heart or soul to give the lady a call, freakin’ SMS her at least, OK?

Friday was a very sad day. I started in a sad mood – I think it was about my latest dating “thing” which traumatized me (I hope not too much though I see myself feeling more scared than ever for the next one – more about that soon, I think) and left me feeling so unhopeful. And then, when I got back from yoga and doing some pre-Shabbat food shopping, I saw the white and black signs all over our building signifying that our dear neighbour passed away.

I came upstairs crying. I was sure my parents would have known already but it turned I was the one to break the news to them.

I went to the funeral with my father. At funerals I try desperately to wrap my head around the idea that every single one of us will have our bodies put in the ground and covered with earth. Unfathomable.

At the same time I am thinking about a couple of different experiences I’ve had over the last couple of weeks with a couple different people. In both cases, the situations are such that it is not in my control to settle things with these people.

I cannot tell you how much I hate that. I want to be, at the minimum, OK with everyone I deal with in this world. As my sister Devora put it, you don’t want to feel like you have to cross the street when you see them coming from the opposite direction.

And the fact that there are people from whom I need to move on and admit that I’ve done what I can and I’ll never make peace with them (at least not until something really major changes – whatever that is), is also something I have the hardest time wrapping my head around.

I am so sick of people hurting each other, especially in dating. The amount of misunderstandings going on and people not talking them out is appalling. The amount of selfishness or self-centredness is sickening.

You know what? Honestly, whatever your other goals in life are, if one of your top goals isn’t to be working on being more and more of a mensch and making sure to treat people properly, I’d highly recommend you consider going to live all by yourself on a mountaintop somewhere.

It’s just wrong to leave victims behind you. Yes, I’ve left victims behind me but I know that I put so much effort into being a sensitive person and I push myself so hard to do things that are very uncomfortable for me because I feel like it is my responsibility to not leave victims behind. And I don’t know how to live with the fact that so often it seems like other people don’t seem to give a second thought to the victims they are leaving in their wake.

I know I’m being so judgemental which in itself isn’t cool. How can I know what other people go through (I feel a blog post on trauma coming up which is more understanding towards misbehaviour if it’s a result of past trauma)? But when I am hurt and I hear about other people getting hurt, I am appalled and I want to figure out how to make it stop.

I truly do not understand how people are willing to take all this unfinished business, schlep it around with them their whole lives and then carry it with them to the grave. I really don’t get it.

Please note:  this post was triggered by the following comment – but is in no way addressed specifically to this person.  Critique of an entire gender is so commonplace now it’s become an accepted norm, a subject of discussion.  There are times when we all (married, single and anywhere in-between) need to examine ourselves, need to re-assess how we talk about others and how we relate.

Just a guy:

I am not just hurt. I am not just broken. I am ANGRY. I cannot have a meaningful relationship with a woman now. I have tried. Lord I have tried! I was SUCKED DRY. Every inch of my soul is simply burning with pain from the HORRORS I underwent BECAUSE OF YOUR GENDER!

So many people, men and women, single, married, divorced have been through bad experiences.  Some say it’s only the men, some say it’s only the women, and some say they deserve each other.

But get real – question is, do you, does anyone want to stay with such feelings?  To carry on treading the same rut?

And do you, just a guy, want to be considered as just a guy? a man?  (or amongst the macho, a real man?) or a person?  I address the same question to the women who malign men day in day out – do you want to be considered as a woman first – or as a person?

When Deena and I gave the original tag line to this site, we called it “Date like a Mensch” – not like a man, or like a woman.  “Menschlichkeit”, behaving like a mensch, comes before and way above sexuality in relationships.  Without it marriages can’t work, relationships can’t work, and let’s face it, even a single date can’t work.

To malign an entire gender is not menschlich – whether it comes from a man or a woman.  And beyond that, for anyone wanting to get married – it’s not useful, not helpful, and serves to distort the soul.

Move on, look for the individual, look for the good in that individual, and be aware of your power in relationships, because even the one who feels so much like a victim has power if he/she would only wake up to it.

But repeating complaints without purpose – unless, just-a-guy and others, you’re trying to convince yourself to enter a monastery or a single-sexrelationship – is just that, without purpose.

Date like a mensch.  That is the only way to go.