My thoughts inspired by an hour on jdate
Besides the “Oy vey” and “We’re doomed” thoughts, many other thoughts go through my head while hanging out on jdate.
Actually, I’ve been spending the last hour going through my inbox and opening messages I never even got around to opening. I barely use jdate so things get pretty backed up there when I actually decide to pay them once or twice a year.
Here are my thoughts:
- If everyone writes that the ideal relationship is based on honesty, who is it that is having those un-open, dishonest relationships? Maybe those who are actually off jdate, dating? :)
- The ad on the left of two perfect-looking people hugging is oh so different than the pictures I’m looking at of real people. Wouldn’t realistic ads do so much better? Do marketers still think we really are that stupid? Or is it that real people would do so much better lying even more than some of them obviously are?
- Lying: My dear, you are NOT 35. And, btw, besides your pictures, the thing that gave it away was that you’re willing to date a woman that is up to 36 years old. You don’t seem like that kind of dude – that open-minded – so that totally gives it away.
- Lost cause: My heart goes out to most guys when I read their profiles. You basically have no idea who they are. Most of them write almost the exact same thing and it makes sense that is how it is because most people aren’t creative writers who are able to take a good look at themselves and write meaningful essays about themselves.
- Stop trying to sell yourself and start making yourself sellable. I’m reading Purple Cow by Seth Godin and he talks about spending less time on the marketing and more time on making the product spectacular to begin with. When I see people trying so desperately to sell themselves, I just think, make yourself sellable and then you won’t have to worry so much.
- I’m full of it. It sucks having to hope that someone will finally see how great you are. For years. Of course five isn’t exactly right. You really could be awesome and it’s just hard for you to get that across (see 4) and you just keep sounding like everyone else (see 1) and you’re competing against fake people (see 2) and you’re tempted to lie (see 3) and you are a great product but you aren’t a marketer (see 5).
Lost cause is right! Of course the site could actually take a leap and offer totally innovative experiences on the site (like okcupid) but then again, would that make a difference?
I’m curious. What do you think of the winks? Reminds me of the pokes on facebook. Silly? I dunno… After a while it really is so hard to keep contacting strangers. I guess it’s a pretty simple and safe way to get someone’s attention.
All in all, good times, ay? I need to get back to opening messages that are 1.5 years old.
fyi, one of the things I basically always pay attention to is if the guy is willing to date a woman at least up to his age or older. I almost always find that the guys who are open to women at least a bit older than themselves are more serious and mature.
Just one comment…
#4 applies completely equally to women on there as well. Vast majority sound exactly the same.
I’m sure!
“at least up to his age or older”
UP TO his age is open-minded?
@Michael, can you believe it?! What is it with guys who are only willing to date girls two years younger than themselves (or less)?
Seriously!
So a few years ago, I’m reading this article on Aish about how men should be willing to marry older women, and I’m nodding along in agreement. Then, the article related an actual story, about a man who married a woman who was … drumroll please … two years older than him!
I just about fell out of my chair. Her being two years older counts??!! For me, two years may as well be within the margin of error! A woman who is two years older than, I’ll consider her basically my same age. I thought this article was going to be talking about five or ten years, not a measly two!
Pretty crazy! Well, maybe it’s the baby-step thing. Maybe in five years they’ll write a follow up and in the story the woman will be 4 years older than the man. :)
And then, five years after that, they’ll write an article about marrying a woman who’s taller than you, and/or divorced, and/or has a less-than-perfect family that you won’t be marrying anyway.
I’ve rewritten my profile dozens of times, as I’ve learned more about myself and women upon re-entering the “dating scene” after a very long relationship. Both me and my profile beneffited.
A few observations I have regarding men’s profiles (and many women’s too) are:
1) Few men are introspective enough to see a partnership or a date as a growth experience. Therefore, they don’t improve with time as persons – they are focused on a goal, not the process. A person who loves relationships will NOT enter one with a person who’s goal oriented rather than process oriented. You can often tell from a profile, by the effort put into it, who’s which.
2) The whole “feel” of dating sites (OkCupid does feel like an exception – they really invested a lot in it – shame not many people use it and visit it frequently) is like Amazon.com.
Educated shoppers can sense hype. And, they know what they want and therefore are looking for ways to disqualify rather than qualify profiles for a closer look. I can see why, too – I’ve heard some really horrible stories about how women are treated by men on these sites. It could be that I’m just hearing the bad stories – nobody tells dog bites man ones – but it’s disgusting.
Since none of us are perfect, and since most of us actually have things about us that are worth getting really excited about, to succeed at it requires a more open heart and more time than most people are willing to bring to the table. If you can’t invest a half hour per day for 6 months, you’re not going to get the success you desire from these sites.
Why? Because (using my own experience as a guide) you’re learning and changing the entire time – from the people you date, from the profiles you see – and the person who’s just right for you will likely appear one moment, and disappear shortly after because they couldn’t find you if you’re not that engaged. It’s easy to get frustrated with these sites when you’re really serious about finding a good mate – yet you don’t know how to get what you want. But they are there.
3) I think lots of people are just plain unrealistic. If you’re a 38 or 39 year old woman, I don’t care how wonderful you are. Demanding a man who’s no older than 41, who’s got more money than Rockefeller, who’s got all his hair – well, putting it bluntly you’ll be alone because that guy’s got 25 year old eye candy on his arms. I know – it’s not polite to say – but that’s the way it seems to be.
What women need to look for is a man who will love you for who you are, who will pursue you and treat you like the Queen you are in his eyes. I don’t know why this is so hard for so many to see. Maybe it’s the bias – that you’ve waited so long and you don’t want to admit your waiting has limited your choices, but they are not what they were and there ARE good men out there – they may just not look like you’re expecting them to.
Yes, it’s not fair – that men have more choices than women – but it’s the case. The men who have everything you want often choose younger women because they can, not because it’s fair. So if you can find a man who’ll date in his age range – I think you’re right, Dena – he’s “more mature” and a great catch. But what if he’s got little money? What if he’s not as religious but respects your religious sincerity and is willing to learn?. But what if he’s 15 years older than you and doesn’t want kids right away? Everybody’s got their “limits”, and they are perfectly legitimate and I’m not challenging anyone here by saying their limits are “wrong” – I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any limits – I have them, too. But I know that they limit my chances, too.
Each one of those persons who contacted you in the past 1.5 years has a story. Some of them for sure you don’t want to know. But you may be surprised if you look deeper – even if none of them are right for you, you’ll learn a lot about yourself by thinking carefully about how the profiles resonate with you – or repulse you.
S’all for now.
Hey Shai, thanks so much for sharing your insights with us regarding online dating. It’s difficult for me to answer just one specific thing you wrote but what I started picturing from what you said was a weird sort of sci-fi scene:
The population of men are standing facing the population of women. They each have the criteria of what they are looking for in a partner and they shoot their criteria at each other. Only when their criteria match each other (like, she’s a 38 year old woman looking for a 35-49 year old man and he’s a 45 year old man looking for a 30-40 year old woman) do they explode which is a sign of a matching criteria.
The problem is, of course, that 99.9% of the time, there are no explosions. All the criteria are just shooting aimlessly past each other, continuing off to nowhere.
:) Fun, ay?
Funny you say your profile changes over time. I reread mine and find I barely feel like making any changes, if any. Everything is a growing experience but I’m still basically the same person. I like to think I’m a better me but the things I wrote about myself are still true.
Of course someone just told me that when he reads the dating profiles of people he knows, he sees almost no resemblance between the profile and who the person really is. So maybe the truth is that my profile isn’t about me at all. :)
Regarding the process- versus the goal-oriented person, I just can’t relate because I’m both. Meaning, I am only in the process because I want to reach a specific goal (no, I would not be dating all these men if it weren’t for the fact that I want to get married) but, as annoying as it is, everything in life can be a growing experience and so, alas, dating is too.
Shai, your comment generates a lot of thoughts and these are some of mine. I hope that very soon you find the lovely lady who can see all the things about you that are worth getting very excited about. :)
Shavua tov!
@Michael, supposedly you do marry the family.
And so finally we know why converts are to be left to rot! After all, it is forbidden to marry a gentile, including their family members!
:) Yeah, I guess we found the problem.
A few thoughts, not necessarily in your order.
I agree that many people have a hard time looking at themselves critically. And I believe that a separate problem is that few seem able to write well. So when you combine the two, of course many profiles will be cut-and-paste jobs, or else things that friends “coached” them to say about themselves (or wrote for them.)
I think your age rule is overgeneralizing. I, for one, would NOT be looking for a woman “my age or older” because I’m already 46. While I would be happy to be friends with “older” women (and my first wife and a fiancee were both a couple of years older than me,) I hear that biological clock ticking pretty loudly from the other side of the gender fence. I WANT more natural children (I have one toddler from my just-ended marriage,) and I don’t think that me dating a 52-year old woman – with whom I could relate just swimmingly, otherwise – is going to be satisfying or fair for either of us with that as an initial expectation. My rule of thumb is about 37 for women without children, and up to 42 for a woman who’s already delivered, and that’s pushing the envelope of prudence as it is. I have friends with Downs’ kids and it is NOT fun. Bad enough being an “older” parent without adding the heartbreak of fertility treatments and increased risk of birth defects from the get-go. Sorry, but my age “bias” all about fertility, not compatibility, and says less about me than about Mother Nature.
I don’t know what I think about Shai’s process-oriented versus goal-oriented breakdown, but I *do* know that I disagree with you about marriage as a “goal.” I’m looking for my life partner, an ezer k’negdi, not a wedding. Marriage is NOT the goal of my wife quest – it’s the START of our life together. I don’t expect to get to the huppah, throw down the glass, shout “Goal!” and dance off with a trophy into the sunset. I’m looking for someone who will join me at the huppah to START on a shared journey “ad meah v`esrim.” If I have a “goal” it’s more like a Rockwell painting or “On Golden Pond,” to sit on a rocking chair on a porch, with my wrinkled but still lovely partner, admiring the sunset and counting our blessings of children, grandchildren, etc., content with the end of a long and happy life together.