Is the first date a lie (continued!)
I’m writing this entire blog post in continuation of Deena’s post on “Is the first date a lie?”, and partly in reply to a faithful commenter (consider yourself honoured…) who wrote:
“You don’t know right now whether or not you will cover your hair when married???????
That just seems like something a frum dating girl would have decided already.”
The issue is not what you know or don’t know. The issue is what you think you know but don’t really know, because you’re still in the theory of marriage, not in the real world of marriage.The distinction is subtle, but when it comes into play after getting married it can hit like a ton of bricks.
For example: a person can know, absolutely, before getting married that he/she wants a large family, as many as the Good L*rd gifts, but after the first two, three kids and many sleepless nights, tattered nerves etc. well does he/she still know that? A girl can be certain she wants to cover her hair, believes in it fully, but after marriage discovers that constant covering her hair gives her a constant (physical) headache? Or the reverse – a guy can be certain he doesn’t want his wife to wear a realistic looking wig – but when he sees the beautiful girl he married wearing a “shmatta” over her glorious blond/red/brown/expensive highlights hair every day he might “know” things differently, especially if her hair starts falling out….yeah, it happens
Religious issues should be sorted out as much as possible before meeting, but it is always possible that even strongly held beliefs and ideas can change when held under the sharp light of reality. Sometimes this is enough to break up a marriage – but the best partnerships often survive heavy-duty earthquakes of this kind.
When dating, people often make many announcements and declarations: “this is important to me, this should be important to you.” But when you’re married, if you truly feel your spouse is your soulmate, your partner, your best friend, all these distinctions stretch a little. They have to, because human beings are not set in stone. But that, gentle readers, is the subject for the next blog site on issues within marriage…
Deena
Vera Resnick
Absolutely. One more reason to give some leeway and not have such ridiculously detailed dating criteria. No, I’m not saying I would (or should) date guys who are currently Charedi or, conversely, are not consistently keeping Shabbat/Kashrut. However, if he’s a little bit more/less observant than I, and willing to keep an open mind about “where I hold” (hate that phrase), then I say try another few dates. Get a feel for their core level of commitment to, and comfort with, their religious views and practises, and let that be your guide.
The same holds true for other areas – if it’s way off base, forget it. Otherwise, try to get to know them juuuust a little and get a feel for what their core character traits, beliefs and ideals really are. Assuming you are comfortable and even enjoying spending time with them, and are not Charedi (or any other sect that advocates marriage after 3-4 dates tops), you’ve already gone on that first awkward date and gotten yourself psyched up about it on some level, so give it half a chance already!
Thanks again for the great posts, Vera and Deena, Shabbat Shalom!
I AM honored, thanks!
For sure some things change. People grow, adapt, “break in” their yahadut.
I’m just saying, something like hair covering or pants wearing is usually decided completely independent of the guy involved. Most girls do what their mother did, and/or what they were taught in sem.
I know some people (B”H not my close friends or family) who have gotten divorced because she didn’t want to be so careful about taharat mishpacha, or he started playing fast and loose with laws of shabbat.
And if you will tell me “oh, but those are absolute essentials!” I will tell you that, for many people, so is hair covering.
I think everyone has their definition of essentials, both in terms of personality and in terms of religious observance. Perhaps it’s just important to get a sense of whether the person is someone changeable or less so. Either way, in so many ways, marriage is a gamble – but there are ways to weight the dice in terms of attitude before marriage, and how you deal with things after, but that’s for another blog site…!
Your comment –> “Religious issues should be sorted out as much as possible before meeting, but it is always possible that even strongly held beliefs and ideas can change when held under the sharp light of reality. Sometimes this is enough to break up a marriage – but the best partnerships often survive heavy-duty earthquakes of this kind.”
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I would think that hair covering (given that’s a pillar of halachah for many) is an earth-shattering issue. I would expect to marry someone who will cover their hair, period. The form of that covering is certainly up for discussion, but without much flexibility. I could see people conceding the use of a hat, shaitel, or snood (or other?) to cover your hair, but I would be shocked if a guy who wanted his wife to cover her hair would be happy when she decides that she’s no longer going to do so.
Changing the number of children you want to have is often a practical concern, one that usually does not conflict much with religion. Hair covering is a whole different parsha!
Using the comment “The best partnerships often survive heavy-duty earthquakes of this kind” makes it sound like a fairy tale, and feels completely without basis. It’s not a movie, where the guy is going to decide that he chooses the girl over his religion and they drive off into the sunset.
Have you studied the subject? Are there so many marriages that survive (AND thrive?) in these situations that we can say “often”? How many of these marriages have ended up in divorces, because their levels of religiousity have diverged too widely? Look, you said it best… it’s a heavy-duty earthquake. And in a heavy-duty earthquake, a lot of people usually die. These relationships are likely no different, and hypothesing otherwise feels misguided and wrong.
A lot of different people are reading this site – for some hair covering is an earth-shattering issue, and for some it’s not. That’s true of most “requirements” that people bring to dating – for some it’s crucial, for some not. By the way, there are also cases where the guy changes his mind about whether he wants his wife to cover her hair, and that can also cause an earthquake – or not.
These days not many marriages survive at all – I’m sure you’ve seen some of the divorce statistics. But yes, I have studied the subject – from talks with friends, experiences as a married person, and from my work as a homeopath. The amount of compromise that goes on inside working marriages and relationships is huge, and much of it is unknown, as marriages are usually private. The compromises can affect every area of the marriage – religious and personal – but in order for any relationship to work there has to be flexibility. So relating to what you said – you have to know what you’re inflexible about, and make sure that the potential date knows, to save time and trouble.
BUT – things happen, people change, and you can find yourself in a committed relationship with someone you care for deeply, and then she announces that she’s changed her attitude to something you’ve stated you’re inflexible about. Then the question will be – do you care enough to find ways to keep the relationship? Will you only consult rabbis you know to be machmirim or will you look for a respectable heter to get round the problem? Will you try to find a way for her to compromise? There are many rabbis who specialise in “shlom bayit”, peaceful homes, and some of the compromises they suggest in difficult situations are surprising, religiously and personally, but they often do work.
You present the alternative somewhat extreme fairy tale, where the guy wanders off into the sunset holding a sefer torah, leaving a shattered relationship and grieving partner behind him. And by the way – I’m sure you’re right, that this happens.