Ladies, we have a responsibility
Look, it’s simple math so please take heed. When we let guys treat us not nicely, three parties suffer. You suffer because you’re not being treated nicely. He’s suffering because he’s not learning that he has to be nice and he is learning that he can get away with things he shouldn’t get away with. And who else suffers? The women who come after you.
The other day, when I put a guy in his place after he spoke to me inappropriately (and I have low tolerance so although it was subtle what he said, I was terribly uncomfortable from his words and felt my reaction was justified), he was shocked. He told me it was the first time someone had put him in his place like that. It was a smack in the face and I could see that he sincerely felt terribly for treating me not nicely. (He went from drunk to sober in around 0.01 seconds, by the way.) But you know what? I, in turn was shocked.
She's shocked he's not a gentleman
He was never put in his place before? Till now he’s just treated women in this way and women let him get away with it? I understand 100% that many times we need to just get away from potentially bad situations as quickly as possible, but what about people he’s closer to?
Though this experience was far from fun, I felt a certain honour in it. Maybe he’ll decide to work on changing this about himself now. Afterwards all I could do was pray for him that he makes this joint experience matter.
My dear fellow ladies, this guy was 35 years old. Is it really possible that in all his grown years he’s been allowed to act as he pleases (in a way, mind you, that is definitely bringing him no happiness)? I wonder, are expectations too low of how guys should treat a girl? I do not believe in all that stuff about guys not having control of themselves or having some kind of strange need to act/speak inappropriately. I am blessed to know many men who are wonderful. And a wonderful man is one of the most wonderful things in the world. Call me idealistic (or annoying) but do we not owe it to our counterparts in life to expect them to be mensches?
P.S. Yes, this piece can be written in the reverse (guys should expect girls to treat them well), just about different issues. Maybe later.
Photo by KalinaSoftware at flickr.
Were this post to be taken the wrong way, it could portend very ominously for the dating world. Are you suggesting that women get in a fight with a guy? I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, in theory, but let’s play the scenario out.
You delivered a needed, powerful, meaningful message to a guy who was willing to accept criticism like an adult, but your theory, that women should figuratively “lash out” at men who mistreat them, is flawed. Most girls can not deliver criticism in a constructive fashion without hurting the guy. Most guys can’t help but be insulted and hurt when someone “attacks” them. Either way, this is destined to blow up very negatively.
How did the guy speak inappropriately? What did he really mean? You said it was subtle… was it so subtle that there was nothing to it and you really overreacted? We never hear the guy’s side (mostly because we don’t care enough to respond on these forums and because no one cares what our opinion is), but I wonder if the guy took the high road and apologized to you rather than explaining that what you did was wrong and rude. Why do you consider yourself so important that you need to strike back at the guy on behalf of all women? Why the need for vigilante justice? Who are you, “Social Robin Hood”? Does your role come with a cape?
Look, I know we’re not Catholic, but there’s something to be said for turning the other cheek. I find it hard to believe that women’s issues with me or my issues with them couldn’t be resolved. We’re each destined to marry our bashert, but no one said anything about being “perfect for each other.” No, we’ll each have flaws and hopefully, our special significant other will be able to get past those flaws and see us for who we are. Must you (and in this particular instance, I do mean YOU, not the general women’s group “you”) attack rather than accept? Shoot the patient rather than trying to cure him?
I will agree with you on one thing: Whatever girls’ expectations are, I agree that they’re not low enough!
- One disgruntled man
My dear disgruntled man,
Sorry that this post seemed to offend you so badly. Look, it’s important to realize that I am leaving out as much detail from the story as possible (while still trying to use it in order to share an idea here) because I would not, God forbid, want this guy get hurt so I am making it as anonymous as possible. But 100%: what he said was inappropriate. I will not give into the urge to tell you what he said with the hope of proving something to you. But it was inappropriate and if there is one indicator that what I did was right, it was how he treated me after that. He was in awe by the fact that I stood my ground, stuck up for myself, etc. etc. He said all those things to me (we ended up speaking for a long time afterwards).
Look, there are different settings in which a guy will potentially treat a girl with less respect than he should. Sometimes it’s appropriate for the girl to say something and other times it’s not. It might be that, if the girl is in a relationship with a guy that isn’t being respectful, she doesn’t make excuses for him (I hear way too much, “boys will be boys”) and either she approaches him about it or, possibly, if it’s bad enough, leaves him (lack of respect is theoretically a very good reason to leave a relationship, no?) (Of course breaking up is a very big deal and very complex but respect is a basic part of a healthy relationship.)
But I do think that guys get the message many times that they can make sexual remarks, maybe even touch the girl when she is not interested in that, because girls aren’t holding the guys up to a certain standard, assuming that guys aren’t capable of acting decently.
Why is it bad to have standards? And why are you so upset? : ) (Not trying to make light of your feelings but am trying to add a little lightness to this discussion, if possible.)
I think part of this issue is – since everyone is being delicate here – it’s not clear what we’re talking about. Deena referred to inappropriate behaviour and didn’t go into detail to protect the guy, also to prevent this whole issue from turning into a slamfest, which is really not our objective here. It also is clear (to me at least) that this issue cuts two ways – behaviour that is problematic from both sides. I think everyone’s expectation should be to be treated like a mensch in all situations – when you lower that particular expectation, the whole cycle of relationship deteriorates. What goes around comes around.
I’m sure this subject will provide material for lots of blog posts!